Serious dialogue on India and Pakistan

http://theghousediary.blogspot.com/2011/08/serious-dialogue-on-india-and-pakistan.html

DRAFT

I am as embarrassed as you may be, that we cannot find solutions to the issues between India and Pakistan. I am writing this note to the moderate majority of Indians, Pakistanis and Kashmiris of both nations. 

If you are born and bred as anti-Indian or anti-Pakistani, don't bother to read. It will deplete your energy as you are not willing to see another point of view.  Those who read it,  read it as an attempt in finding solutions… you can improvise and negate on the issue and not attack any individuals in the dialogue.

Sincerely,

Mike
Mike Ghouse is committed to building cohesive societies and is available to speak on Pluralism, coexistence, Islam, India, peace and justice. Details at www.MikeGhouse.net

# # #

This is my response to a Rajinder Sud, and Indian who responded to Imran Kazimi, a Pakistani


Rajinder,

Your analysis is on very close on the target and I am pleased to offer a solution.

The root cause of all the tensions between the two nations stems from Kashmir!

The only beneficiaries of waving Kashmir slogan are the Pakistani politicians, Paksitanis military leaders and the Indian right wing politicians. They do not give a crap about Pakistan; instead they have used, abused, misused and ruined Pakistan.

All energies of Pakistan were channeled towards Kashmir, even the user-Pakistanis around the world  who wanted to siphon cash from the nincompoops have said  -“ Khoon bahayiengay magar Kashmir leke raheingay”.  they will never “baha” their damned Khoon, it is rhetoric  - apan ullu theek karnay tha unhien.

How long can the leaders and the users dupe the people?
Did they do any good to Pakistan?

The Major difference is most Indians do not fall for the users whereas the Pakistanis do not say a word about it and their silence encourages the users to continue with their rhetoric.    

All the tension between the two nations is about Kashmir!

I used to publish a News Paper called Asian American Journal (Asian News) and on the front page I placed a map of the subcontinent which showed Kashmir as an Indian state, one of the Pakistani Store owners threw all my papers in the trash and holds grudges and does the back biting and maligning, shame on those who fall for it.  

THE SOLUTION

Accept the status-quo, the LOC

It will free both the nations from any more tension, but will make it difficult for the military in Pakistan and the Right wing parties in India – all in a sudden they do not have an enemy and I hope they resist manufacturing one up. If there is democracy in Pakistan, public will refuse to be duped.

The Lashkar Taiaba and other outfits will go out of business, once the declaration is made and both the people can hope for an end to terrorism.

The monies saved on defense and terrorism can be channeled to food production to make Pakistan self sufficient and work on building their educational institutions.

First priority should be building infrastructure for democratic institutions and the process. The TV channels of Pakistan are fairly independent and they can play a major role in defining a democratic Pakistan.

When two democracies function well, there seldom will be a need for strong defense or any issue. It can lead to a loose federation in the long haul

The Kashmiris will have two states of Kashmir; one is in India and the other in Pakistan.

The Kashmiri Pandits need to be given back their land in the valley and offer all the privileges to them. Recent reports have indicated where the Kashmiri Muslims and Pundits were getting back together, that is good news.  It the damned non-Kashimiris who create the problem for the Kashimiris.  If we cannot do any good to them, we should do any harm either.

The idea of Independent Kashmir is dangerous – China can swallow it any time as they have done a 1/3 of it already. What are we doing to do? Nothing!  The Talibans can ride in and further destroy the pluralistic tradition of Kashmir making it painful for the Kashmiris, Indians and the Pakistanis.  

No nation should be built on Religion, the two that were built – Pakistan and Israel have become a sore point in the history, we cannot reverse what happened, but we should stand up against any religious government.  Much of the terrorism in the world has emanated from those two. Religious governments do not have a good record anywhere. Even if it were ever to come in America, it will be hell – the first target will be the Jews, there is so much anti-Semitism built in there, the second will be Muslims and the third would be Hindus… no one will be spared by the evangelicals who want to harvest the souls and save the Hindus, Muslims and other Christians from going to hell.

The Kashmiris will have the autonomy and freedom to run their state as they wish, just as all other states within India do now. When Pakistan becomes a true democracy, the Kashmiri state to the north should enjoy the same privileges of a state within Pakistan.

India’s states are very independent and sometimes go against the center, it is like in the United States – Two major parties control the states and federal government. You have to be good to remain in government. Even the slogan “Ram Mandir bana kay raheingay’ did not go with the majority of Indians – they wanted jobs and prosperity.  Duping Indians with religion happened once, but will not happen again. It will not happen in America and I hope the Pakistanis will do the same once they have democracy in place, and they have a record of it.

Rarely democracies have fought wars.

The Pakistan Public needs to demand jobs and increase in food production, India can transport the food, tractors, automobiles at a much lower cost than Pakistan can get from elsewhere. Indeed, the Indian businesses that are going to China for production can create those jobs in Pakistan.

On my Part, I can say most Indians are ready to move on, but it will certainly happen once the post-partition Indians and Pakistanis die off and go to wherever they belong. They got too much hate conditioned in them. The 70’s generation does not carry the same baggage.  

As an Individual Pakistani, you can think about it… the changes won’t happen in one day, the energy is built up and critical level can be reached. Are you  in ?

If you are, are you willing to speak up?
 
Mike Ghouse
Committed to cohesive America
www.MikeGhouse.net

-----------------------------

Rajinder writes to Kazmi:

What you say is true that there is corruption and if you say "that is the reason why Pakistan is collapsing" - may be. But if so, why is India not collapsing?

You say "we are of the same umbilical chord", I beg to differ. There is a huge difference in our mindset. In 60+ years India established over 8000 universities when there were only 10 in 1947, and if I am not wrong Pakistan has only two - Punjab and Sindh. Differece: education is supreme on the mind of an Indian. Pakistan has 28,000 madrassas training terrorists - midset. You will find thousands if not millions of stories that an Indian father will go to Bombay, drive a rickshaw in Delhi, work as a labourer in Ahmedabad etc. and send money to educate his son. Mindset.

India developed its economy in a planned manner - mixture of private and public enterprise. Pakistan built military complexes, allotting big farmlands to its retiring generals creating feudalism - mindset. No planning to develop any Industry. Even tiny Bangladesh did better.

India emphasized developing its music and movie industry - what did Pakistan do? Even poor Nur Jahan had hard time advancing her talent as she became Yahya Khan's concubine. I have been told of some very juicy stories by her close confidant. Pakistanis often speak of Indian movie industry in derisive words - mindset.

India opted for mechanized farming, laid a huge network of irrigation canals in Punjab, Haryana etc. and tackled succefully its food shortage problem to a great extent and is today among the largest exporters of rice. Pakistan is barely producing enough for its needs and suffers from acute shortages. The hydro-electric dams India built provided electricity to almost every village and hutment all over the country. Can you speak of the same by WAPDA?

India added hundreds of thousands of railway lines, manaufactures its own locomotives and even exports them to African and South American countries. Does Pakistan?

India is building 30 miles of roadways every month and has changed the landscape of rural India and is doing so constantly. Does Pakistan.

What Pakistan did great is build Nuclear arsenal factories, created one of this planets largest armies and fighting capacity- difference: Mindset.

Instead India developed its Knowledge-based IT industry and is the world's envy. Thousands of US and European companies have their service centres in INdia employing millions of educated workers. What IT industry do you have?

India took secularism and inclusive pluralism as its motto (I wo'nt quibble about its complete success) and Pakistan chose to become an "Islamic Republic". Difference: Mindset.

India condemns and fights its reactionary Hindu extremism, whereas Pakistan promotes it. Mindset.

Sir, if we were of the same umbilical chord, then why don't we think alike. What did a poet sayFault dear Brutus is not with our stars, but with ourselves that we are underlings".

India had a dream of overcoming the handicaps it inherited and its situation as an underling and overcame the hurdles the British had left behind. Did Pakistan? It had the same problems as India, but did nothing to overcome them - instead it chose to fight India over Kashmir, Bangladesh over who is better Punjabi or Bengali, Afghaistan as a stooge of the CIA - right or wrong. India never became anybody's concubine Pakistan chose to sit in the lap of the US for decades, until lately of course, when the US learnt that Pakistan was not a stable friend. We have a saying in our culture which says that a wise enemy is better than a foolish friend. Mindset.

India promoted women in the field of education and workforce, Pakistan kept them in bondage. Mindset.

Yes, we shared the same planet but not the umbilical chord from times immemorial. Muslims always had a religious chip on their shoulder which the Hindus resented, not that there are no Hindu zealots but not like the Muslims. Unfortunately when Hindus felt that they were being marginalised by the Muslims, Sikhs, Christians in the south in the 60's, etc., then these reactionary movements started and got their following which is now on the wane. Extremism in Pakistan which fosters violence is on the increase. Mindset.

Muslims never made good businessmen, but they took pride in becoming good builders, farmers and artisans etc., but Pakistan needed business minds. Mindset.

Sir, Hindus often ask: Aqal badi ke bhains. You tell me Sir, are we of the same kind.

Do not find faults with India, there may be many but inspite of them India is forging ahead, why is not Pakistan? If you say that India could do better without corrupt politicians, then you are dead right, But then can you name me one country on this planet where there is no corruption. USA, Canada, Russia, France, Italy, Greece, Spain????? Where there are human beings there is greed, corruption etc. but India at least is aware of it and is fighting it. Is Pakistan? You have your military running the country for decades and have no guts to fight it. Mindset.

Did I say everything right or do you still differ.

Rajinder