Facts don't matter to some.
I am pleased to respond to Logan’s challenge on the net hoping he and his friends will be open to seeing another point of view. I pray that he and his friends read this with an open mind and an open heart. (of the 3200 words nearly 2400 are quotes from Quraan)
Each one of us bears responsibility to do his or her share of work in creating cohesive societies where everyone feels safe and secure, and trust one another to make life easier for one and the others. You and I are responsible for our own actions and we have to do our share of good in creating such societies. We have a choice not do a thing and not hear from any.
Just around the crusades, the European kings commissioned a hostile Quran translation to foster warfare against Muslim invaders to get their subject to go fight for them. Then after the fall of Ottoman Empire, a Muslim turns around and produced a hostile translation of Quran to inflame Muslims against Christians and Jews.
Religions were introduced to bring sanity to people, most people get it and few don’t. There are a few Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Jews and others who don’t get their religion and resort to oppression and hate mongering without realizing it. If they spend their energy on building peace we will have a much better society to live.
Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders, Brigitte Gabriel, Nonie Darwish, Wafa Sultan, Alan Dershowitz, Ali Sina and a host of others are guided by those translations and it suits them to sell hate and frightened nincompoops write those checks.
I am willing to discuss this further, if there is intellectual discussion without judgments, if not, don’t expect me to correspond any further. I have referenced some material below where a few men have run off instead of dealing with the issues they raised.
Mike Ghouse
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“Koran 009.029 - YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Although Yusuf Ali’s translation is the first one in English by a Muslim, Muhammad Asad’s translation is closer to meaning than Yusuf Ali and I have opted to go with Asad’s translation locatable at: http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/
9:29 (Asad) [And] fight against those who - despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] [40] -do not [truly] believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, [41] and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon them] [42] till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled [in war]. [43]
[40] Lit., "such of those who were vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] as do not believe...” etc. In accordance with the fundamental principle-observed throughout my interpretation of the Qur'an -that all of its statements and ordinances are mutually complementary and cannot, therefore, be correctly understood unless they are considered as parts of one integral whole, this verse, too must be read in the context of the clear-cut Qur'anic rule that war is permitted only in self-defense (see 2:190-194, and the corresponding notes).
In other words, the above injunction to fight is relevant only in the event of aggression committed against the Muslim community or state, or in the presence of an unmistakable threat to its security: a view which has been shared by that great Islamic thinker, Muhammad `Abduh. Commenting on this verse, he declared: "Fighting has been made obligatory in Islam only for the sake of defending the truth and its followers.... All the campaigns of the Prophet were defensive in character; and so were the wars undertaken by the Companions in the earliest period [of Islam]" (Manar X, 332). (Quran Ref: 9:29)
[41] This, to my mind, is the key-phrase of the above ordinance. The term "apostle" is obviously used here in its generic sense and applies to all the prophets on whose teachings the beliefs of the Jews and the Christians are supposed to be based - in particular, to Moses and (in the case of the Christians) to Jesus as well (Manar X, 333 and 337). Since, earlier in this sentence, the people alluded to are accused of so grave a sin as willfully refusing to believe in God and the Last Day (i.e., in life after death and man's individual responsibility for his doings on earth), it is inconceivable that they should subsequently be blamed for comparatively minor offences against their religious law: consequently, the stress on their "not forbidding that which God and His apostle have forbidden" must refer to something which is as grave, or almost as grave, as disbelief in God.
In the context of an ordinance enjoining war against them. this "something" can mean only one thing-namely, unprovoked aggression: for it is this that has been forbidden by God through all the apostles who were entrusted with conveying His message to man. Thus, the above verse must be understood as a call to the believers to fight against such-and only such-of the nominal followers of earlier revelation as deny their own professed beliefs by committing aggression against the followers of the Qur'an (cf. Manar X, 338).(Quran Ref: 9:29 )
[42] See in this connection the statement (in 5:13-14) that the Jews and the Christians "have forgotten much of what they had been told to bear in mind". (Quran Ref: 9:29)
[43] Sc., "and having become incorporated in the Islamic state". The term Jizya, rendered by me as "exemption tax", occurs in the Qur'an only once, but its meaning and purpose have been fully explained in many authentic Traditions. It is intimately bound up with the concept of the Islamic state as an ideological organization: and this is a point which must always be borne in mind if the real purport of this tax is to be understood. In the Islamic state, every able-bodied Muslim is obliged to take up arms in jihad (i.e., in a just war in God's cause) whenever the freedom of his faith or the political safety of his community is imperiled: in other words, every able-bodied Muslim is liable to compulsory military service. Since this is, primarily, a religious obligation, non-Muslim citizens, who do not subscribe to the ideology of Islam, cannot in fairness be expected to assume a similar burden. On the other hand, they must be accorded full protection of all their civic rights and of their religious freedom: and it is in order to compensate the Muslim community for this unequal distribution of civic burdens that a special tax is levied on non-Muslim citizens (ahl adh-dhimmah, lit., "covenanted" [or "protected"] people", i.e., non-Muslims whose safety is statutorily assured by the Muslim community).
Thus, Jizya is no more and no less than an exemption tax in lieu of military service and in compensation for the "covenant of protection" (dhimmah) accorded to such citizens by the Islamic state. (The term itself is derived from the verb jaza, "he rendered [something] as a satisfaction", or "as a compensation [in lieu of something else]" - cf. Lane II, 422.) No fixed rate has been set either by the Qur'an or by the Prophet for this tax; but from all available Traditions it is evident that it is to be considerably lower than the tax called zakah ("the purifying dues") to which Muslims are liable and which - because it is a specifically Islamic religious duty-is naturally not to be levied on non-Muslims.
Only such of the non-Muslim citizens who, if they were Muslims, would be expected to serve in the armed forces of the state are liable to the payment of Jizya, provided that they can easily afford it. Accordingly, all non-Muslim citizens whose personal status or condition would automatically free them from the obligation to render military service are statutorily - that is, on the basis of clear-cut ordinances promulgated by the Prophet-exempted from the payment of Jizya: (a) all women, (b) males who have not yet reached full maturity, (c) old men, (d) all sick or crippled men, (e) priests and monks. All non-Muslim citizens who volunteer for military service are obviously exempted from the payment of Jizya. My rendering of the expression `an yad (lit., "out of hand") as "with a willing hand", that is, without reluctance, is based on one of several explanations offered by Zamakhshari in his commentary on the above verse. Rashid Rida', taking the word yad in its metaphorical significance of "power" or "ability", relates the phrase can yad to the financial ability of the person liable to the payment of Jizya (see Manar X, 342): an interpretation which is undoubtedly justified in view of the accepted definition of this tax.(Quran Ref: 9:29 )
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“Mike you are not the spokesperson for Muslims in America. So do not pretend to be. What Mike fails to mention is that the God of Islam is not the same God as Christianity. The proof of this is that the Islam scriptures state that Jesus will come back as a Muslim and destroy Christianity. The God of Christianity would not want his or her religion destroyed. Mike thinks that statement from Mohammad will fool us.”
As individuals we are responsible to create cohesive societies where everyone feels secure and trusts one another to make life easier for the self and others. You and I are responsible for our own actions. In our solitude if we reflect, or on the day of accountability, we are to account for our karma. That puts the responsibility on you and I to speak out when there is injustice, when there is falsehood and when there is oppression and I am doing my share of the work.
There is just one creator; there is no such thing as Christian God or Muslim God that is sheer ignorance. God is not a being, not a thing with specific characteristics to limit his acceptance to the universe.
Jesus represents hope for humanity, when things are rough, when people are creating division, hating each other, bombing each other and become revenge seeking, they are simply reacting. As humans we hope for a just and peaceful world and that hope is anchored in Jesus, his re-appearance gives us hope and salvation from the hatefulness that has permeated in the society. When good becomes a common place, it simply means evil is subsided or gone.
Since Jesus is the promised Messiah predicted in Islam, the right wing Christian assumes that Jesus is a Muslim (p0litical) and will destroy them, as the Logan website writes it up. Likewise the right wing Muslim believes that when Jesus takes out the evil, he took out Christianity. How ignorant are some of these folks.
Destroying Christianity is the manufacture of right wing Christians and right wing Muslims and they do not represent the majority of Christians and Muslims.
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“But the reality is his statement does not include the words “no superiority over other religions”. What else do you have Mike?”
First of all, the spiritual aspect of every religion brings goodness to humanity, the insecurity in weak men of religion causes division, mine is better than yours. Historically, Islam did not exist during the time of Jesus, if it was, he would have talked about it, as he was a pluralist. Christianity did not exist during the times of Moses, if not Moses would have delivered the New Testament as well. Both Christianity and Judaism did exist during the times of the Prophet Muhammad and both are respectfully talked about in Islam and Quraan.
I don’t know how knowledgeable you are, but it is a requirement for Muslims to believe in Moses, Jesus and all the prophets of Old Testament. Indeed, one’ faith is incomplete without that belief. Add to this, the Prophet tells his followers not to treat one prophet to be superior over the other – Islam was not Muhammad’s religion, it was a universal idea to bring peace to humanity through the removal of arrogance. He did not want people to worship him, he never claimed to be divine, in fact he said, I am just like you, a mortal being, when I die, bury me in an unmarked grave.. He insisted that no one paint his picture, lest someone starts worshipping him rather than God. That was the best example of humility of the Prophet.
Christianity or Judaism does not say that their religion is not superior to any, then why do you expect Islam to say that, that is hypocrisy, is it not?
However, read these verses;
[2:136] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."
[21:47] we will establish the scales of justice on the Day of Resurrection. No soul will suffer the least injustice. Even the equivalent of a mustard seed will be accounted for. We are the most efficient reckoners.
[2:148] each of you chooses the direction to follow; you shall race towards righteousness. Wherever you may be, GOD will summon you all. GOD is Omnipotent.
[10:99] had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?
[4:123] it is not in accordance with your wishes, or the wishes of the people of the scripture: anyone who commits evil pays for it, and will have no helper or supporter against GOD.
5:8 (Asad) O YOU who have attained to faith! Be ever steadfast in your devotion to God, bearing witness to the truth in all equity; and never let hatred of any-one [19] lead
[49:13] O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant you into the sin of deviating from justice. Be just: this is closest to being God-conscious. And remain conscious of God: verily, God is aware of all that you do.
[22:17] Those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, the Christians, the Zoroastrians, and the idol worshipers, GOD is the One who will judge among them on the Day of Resurrection. GOD witnesses all things.
[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
Quraan also tells that one can marry a Jewish or Christian woman without converting.
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“You claim that Muslims love the US legal system, in which juries judge others. Then you turn around and state only God should judge. So which is it?”
Mr. Simpleton, when you rape, murder, cheat and loot, you are affecting the civil balance of a society. It is the society that judges you and hauls your heinie to the jail. Whereas, God judges your belief in oneness of God, humanity and the universe. He gives ample opportunities to repent. God loves those who repent and put themselves on moral high grounds.
American Muslims have placed their trust in the American justice system; the civil laws of our nation provide ample justice. The Muslim majority in America is happy with the American system and does not want to have Sharia law here in America. Check the link below on Sharia.
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Have you ever read his book, “What is right with Islam is right with America”? If you send me an email with your address, I will have a copy of that book mailed to you. Sharia simply means living by rules and it has two sides to it; personal and public. Imam Feisal was referring to Personal Sharia. Is there is a nation, including our own, where laws are always just? The stoning of adulterers is wrong, the punishment for Blasphemy is wrong… neither of them are in Quraan. Go fact check – the number of adulterers stoned to death number less than the deaths we executed in Texas and none need to be singled out, and both need to be condemned.
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“Muslim Hadith Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.”
I have not checked the veracity of your quote and I ask you to do that and not rely on hearsay. It sounds good to the right wing Christians and they will make a capital out of it, and it also appeals to the right wing Muslims as it suits their agenda. But that is not in the spirit of Quraan, Islam and the Prophet.
If one is allowed to marry a Jewish or Christian woman without asking her to convert, then this Hadith is meaningless and perhaps cooked up by the right wingers.
Take a look at the following:
[10:99] had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?
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“Mike, my challenge to you is for you to come here, and prove my statements on Islam to be false. Unlike Hannity, I will not sit silently as you try and cover for the Islamic menace!”
I have done my part and it is up to you to research the truth. I have responded to Geert Wilders, Robert Spencer, and Naomi… Ali Sina and several others, they don’t read, their purpose is to make money - look at your own site, asking for money, that is your business. I am not looking for any money and just doing my share of the work to build a cohesive America where no one has to live in apprehension of the other.
Please feel free to clarify anything you wish but refrain from anything that you cannot substantiate from Quraan.
Thank you.
Mike Ghouse
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My Challenge to Frequent Sean Hannity Guest Mike Ghouse
The World Muslim Congress is committed to nurturing the pluralistic ideals embedded in Islam.
Mike Ghouse
Mike Ghouse is a speaker, thinker, writer and a frequent guest on Hannity show and nationally syndicated Radio shows and Dallas TV, Radio and Print Media. He presides America Together Foundation and is committed to building a cohesive America and offers pluralistic solutions on issues of the day. Over 1000 articles have been published on Pluralism, Interfaith, Islam, India and cohesive societies. Two of his books are poised to be released this fall on Pluralism and Islam. He is available to speak at your place of worship, work, school, college, seminars or conferences. His work is encapsulated in 27 blogs, four websites and several forums indexed at http://www.mikeghouse.net/
