Gay Lesbians

Mike Ghouse at 10:59am February 23

Sarah has pointed out, that this peice stems from Radun's posting and our comments, including mine referenced above.

Face book is one of the biggest pluralistic democracies that there is. Your conservative and some liberal views are appreciated. We don't have to agree with any one, but we have to express our thoughts, that way all the points get on the table.

Let's look to every one on FB as an individual, they can wear any label they want; religious, nationalistic, race, gender orientation or other, but their opinion must be valued, without having to adopt it as your own.

The Gays and Lesbians may not be religiously acceptable yet, but so were the Lepers, Prostitutues and others... Jesus reached them all to set a new benchmark of inclusion. He would have done the same with GL today. Let's respect the rights of every individual, that is the hallmark of civili socieities

I am amazed at the anti-gay attitutdes, what have they done to any one one? Llike the majority of any people live their own lives. It appears that people have made their business to hate gays. It is not a hellthy thing to hate people or even lookdown on others. Gay is not necessarily about Sex, it is about companionship.

We need to seriously examine our prejudices against some one who is different. Remember each one of us is different in a different setting.

I am not a gay but I will stand up for every one whose rights are violated and I hope each one of will.

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Plantec

Ranjan, you like to to stir the pot...don't you Consider my pot well stirred. And if any of you think that homosexuality is a disease, please be advised that is officially NOT a disease. It doesn't have to be fixed. It is a normal state for humans and has been since the dawn of time. Some of our greatest and most admired thinkers through the ages have been gay. The notion that there is a way to fix your homosexual daughter or son, is a dangerous one. It would be like trying to take a perfectly healthy child and forcing them to be infected with a disease. Forcing them to live a lie so you can be comfortable with your prejudices. Your God made us all, Gays, Lesbians, Jews, Christians, Muslems, Hindus, yes even you Ebenezer!! Your God made the gays and you have the audacity to say your God was wrong? I think not. I think you just like controversy. But then I could be wrong...you could be a bigot. Perhaps we will find out.

Lubna

I am late....but here I am....Woosh!...What thoughts?...What arguments?....I see steam coming out....the heat is on....:)

As for me.....Well although a nobody and a non entity among you all highly esteemed friends....I am a proud muslim and a humanitarian as well...my religion does not permit homosexuality as many other religions...however it teaches to be tolerant and respect humans one and all. I believe that each to his own and each one has a right to live as they wish for and not be misjudged or prejudiced either!! I have friends as well and I could never hate them coz they are the most loving ones in my life and for some unknown reason I do feel safe with them....:) Blessings to them and you all here!! Love you!!

Mike Ghouse at 1:43pm February 23
Lubna,

Glad you brought Islam, as I have said, whether we are Muslims, Christians, Jews or others, we have been consuming the meaning of our texts as they have been dished out by the politically oriented religions leaders. It is time to push the refresh button; God is for all times and so is his wisdom.

Here is a verse from Qur'aan,"He fashioned each one of you--and each one of you is beautiful. To God you will all return. He knows all that the heavens and the earth contain. He knows all that you hide and all that you reveal. He knows your deepest thoughts."

God takes the responsibility to judge people. We cannot, as we are not responsible for any one's actions other than our own.

6:164 Say: "Am I, then, to seek a sustainer other than God, when He is the Sustainer of all things?" And whatever [wrong] any human being commits rests upon himself alone; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another's burden.

Religions are inclusive, it is the individuals.Peter Plantec at 3:58pm February 23
I like you Mike Ghouse. You are articulate and you seem to understand the real God...the one that doesn't even care what your religion is... Your quote from the Qur'aan was most appropriate...and You Lubna...a wise woman. Mike Ghouse at 4:22pm February 23
Thanks Peter, if we free God from our chains, he can breathe and be a good (thing, man or woman) things to all of us. No one owns God and God certainly does not have a religion. Appreciate your comments


Dale Calder
Mike Ghouse .. I agree with Peter. You bring words of wisdom to this debate. Re your comment .. "Gay is not necessarily about Sex, it is about companionship".

Why is it that some people see a strong display of affection or love by one male to another male, or one female to another female as aberrant? This attraction of same sex is surely what gayness is all about. And bound up with this is the desire for companionship you mention and dare I say it the usually inevitable sexual union.

Who am I with all of my imperfections to stand in judgment on such a relationship? And just occasionally, could it not be that a platonic relationship exists between the couple living together? And are these folk still villified because people have leapt to conclusions in the absence of being privy to what might be happening in the bedroom?

Whatever the sexual orientation, in my view sexual union in a committed relationship is a far cry from profligate sex, for sex' sake.

Radun:

As some of you know, I am the "adopted" grandson of a Lakota Elder in South Dakota and I truly appreciate the Native-American approach to their religions - namely, a belief in a Creator and a total lack of scriptures - nothing is written down - no books to study, no laws to learn - all is practice - simply thanking the Creator. Prayers are offered, never asking anything for oneself, only for others. Gays are honoured in traditional beliefs, considered people with 2 spirits and referred to as such. And best of all, RELIGION IS A PRIVATE AFFAIR - PERSONAL - AND NOT TO BE DISCUSSED. If only the rest of the religious world took a lesson from these "primitive heathens". It's interesting to note that Native-Americans have no history of ever waging war over religious differences.

Calder:

I suspect we are not even clear on what we mean when using the word "Gay", but suspect we are more likely when condemning to be referring to the physical sex act. Yet, the same sex act we see being perpetuated by males upon males, is now seemingly 'fashionable' with some of the more 'out there' females. And I am left to wonder .. is this somehow different is it? Or do we have members of our society with double standards on this issue?

I believe that when sex is cheapened through the likes of overt pornography, the Hero parades you mention, sex bars and the like, as a society we are the loser. But it seems like they are here to stay irrespective of whether I endorse them or not.

I will wrap this up by saying - we do not have to agree by being accepting of the rights of gays as they choose. And Sarah .. like you. Even though I would be somewhat taken aback if one of my boys came on home to tell me he was gay, I would be accepting of him and never stop loving him.
Mike Ghouse at 6:10pm February 23

Barry, as far as the question of waging the the war over religion.... that the Native Indians have not fought.

Take a look, insecure people will always find a threat in others, and they will find excuses to annihilate the other if they get the chance.

In India, consider for example fighting over water rights between two INdian states, people have killed each other, the binder was not the religion, as it is the same on both sides; it was the language as do French and English. If it were the same language and same faith, then the fight would be over ethnicities as in Darfur, even if it were the same ethnicity, it would be the classess... as in Rwanda.

Every nation, tribe and a community has found itself in conflicts and about every one is a party to it. The Native Indians fought over the tribal differences. They Mayans and Hopis had ceased talking with each others and at one time or the othere, they have killed each other.

It is human bo be good, bad and ugly.